"sn4cktimes" (snacktimes)
10/13/2016 at 05:41 • Filed to: None
3
23|
"sn4cktimes" (snacktimes)
10/13/2016 at 05:41 • Filed to: None | 3
| 23 |
Good Morning Oppo
Long time Lurker, first time Author thanks to Party-vi. So hang on folks, I promise this journey will entail terrible decisions, some successes, probably blood, and pretty close to an utter lack of any true knowledge or skill.
So, let us begin!
I’ve got an 88' AMC Eagle Wagon.
Ta Da! It’s old, it’s brown , it’s from a defunct automobile corporation, it was but now isn’t working, and it’s all mine! It’s a three speed automatic... but we’ll come back to that point. Oh yeah, and it’s on the fly 4DW!
So the good:
-Body / Frame pretty good shape
-It can move under it’s own power (well, could )
-When up to snuff the 4.2L 258 engine has wads of torque for a gas engine.
-I mentioned the 4WD right?
-Roof rack!
-Power options, and cruise control
-Brakes were just redone before I purchased it
-Interior is decent
The Bad (here we go):
-Transmission was almost dead, got it rebuilt
-It does need some body work and a new paint job
-The carb was being a shit, so I rebuilt it, and it’s actually worse
-It’s a 3 speed with a 0-60 time of next Tuesday
-AMC is dead and stuff is difficult to find in good shape
-The redone brakes are 80's tech and even redone still suck
-Engine probably needs a rebuild. (198,000km)
-Steel wheels are worked out and need replacing with something better
I’m sure there’s other stuff to list but whatever, it’s a car! it’s always going to have something wrong with it. Hell, I’ve got a 2013 Turbo Veloster that blew it’s stock engine at like 18,000. Shredded the block and seized the transmission. Hyundai in Korea shipped them back to study, maybe it’ll help the new N line of i30's not blow up. But WHO CARES?!?! I’ve got an 88 AMC to make work now.
First task completed was changing out the leaky headlights. Super easy 2 minute job in most modern vehicles... Took me about an hour with this car. In my defence, I’ve never changed this style of “bulb” before so it had a learning curve. Have to remove a large part of the grill to get to the clips / clamps that hold the bulbs in.
Leaving this sad looking scenario:
So you can get back to this, now without a bunch of murky fluid sloshing about:
The astute observers out there probably noticed I have pics from the left and right sides of the car. Haha! Tricky!
So then we take a break and admire what we’ve got; a car that can drive in the dark. Awwww yeahhhh.
Yes I realize my garage conditions a little austere. I’m working on it.
So as stated previously I then took a crack at the carb... And she was a mess.
Start labelling things, removing things and bam! on the table in basement she goes because I’ve got nowhere else to work on it.
Breakdown and cleanup complete. Tried to keep it organized because I know, that I don’t know, what I’m doing at all really. I’ve rebuilt an 83' Honda trike carb before... this is a little more c o m p le x .
The cat gets overly protective of my tools sometimes. Construction Kitty will not be denied her fun.
Put it all back together following the specs and measurements supplied, and voila, it’s whole again.
Shiny!
I reinstalled it on the car, it started up, I adjusted the mixture to get it running nicely and took it for a short drive and stall. Stall. STALL . It’s got a really bad stutter when first stepping onto the gas. Enough to lug it right out. After it gets going it’s all good. It’s probably one of the little needle tubes needing some high pressure blowing out, or having a wire pushed through it. No biggie I say and decide to flounder ahead!
Next up the distributer cap, wires, and ignition coil. Changeout of the wires is uneventful (I’ve done that before on other cars). Go one at a time so no mix ups. I pull the old wires off the spark plug and car and replace it, same place, on the new cap. Do all 6. Remove old cap, yank off rotor contact, replace with new contact (beveled fitting so only goes on as it came off), put the new cap on and NOTHING.
Chugga Chug nothing . Fiddle with it, swap new back to old, same . Swap wires, same . Pull all wires, replace following a diagram for this engine, same order, same result , nothing... Couldn’t change the coil as I didn’t have a #50 Torx, only a #45 (got one now). Think I borked it up somehow. I read a tip on a Jeep YJ forum that leads me to believe I may have lifted the gear out of place and need to get the engine to top dead centre to figure this out. Tomorrow’s a new day and I’ll have another look at it.
So, I’ve currently got a car that has a working transmission, working headlights, a semi repaired carb, and an ignition system that does nothing... huff.
Now to come full circle on you guys here. I mention WAY up top (remember when you were 15 minutes younger? You’ll never get that time back, it’s mine now MINE! ) that it’s a 3 speed auto. Well it’s got the 4.2L 258 AMC block, Carter 2 barrel Carb, and the original transfer case and transmission (now rebuilt). If I can’t get the thing to fire up it gets towed and falls onto a mechanic to undo my stupidity. Keeping in mind the engine probably needs a rebuilt anyway. If a mechanic gets involved should I have him:
A) Fix what the “gods” at AMC gave ‘er. (fix carb, ignition problem)
B) Fix and rebuild/re-spec the engine
C) Rebuild the engine and add the Mopar MPFI (fuel injector / manifold kit)
D) Give the block to an engine shop and get it back when it can push over 300hp either N/A or with a turbo
E) Consider getting a crate Mopar engine, transmission, transfer-case from something SRT and and just be done with it.
I’m kinda hovering around C or D...
Okay, I’m off to bed. Hoping there’s not too many errors or typos up there. Interested to see the feedback on this, my first article as such.
Xyl0c41n3
> sn4cktimes
10/13/2016 at 07:09 |
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Damnit. Party-vi let you in here? Who the fuck let him in here?!
Heh. Just kidding. Welcome to the Oppoverse!
Enzo approves of Construction Kitty. We think you’ll fit right in here. :)
jimz
> sn4cktimes
10/13/2016 at 07:12 |
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4.2 liter.
2.4 liters is about 145 cubic inches.
and I feel your pain. those late ‘80s electronic feedback carbs sucked.
OPPOsaurus WRX
> sn4cktimes
10/13/2016 at 07:43 |
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excessively complex procedure for a simple repair.... r u sure thats not an old Allroad? Welcome to the club. When I was a little kid, a guy up the street from me had one of those. I loved it. He also had a small airplane in what was just a little more than an oversize tent with the wings off. it was definitely odd cuz there were no runways anywhere near us.
RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
> sn4cktimes
10/13/2016 at 08:00 |
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Looks good - kudos sir! If there was a way to do a manual swap, you’re obligated to do so....because manual, and because brown and wagon to make the trifecta! :P
I’d go with the original engine and just add some fuel injection for now - cheap and gets it going reliably. :)
jminer
> sn4cktimes
10/13/2016 at 09:29 |
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First of all, welcome to oppo! You’ll find it to be a fun place. I came here because I got tired of the forums and find it a much better place to spend my time.
I’ve always liked those AMC Eagles. I should have picked up one 15 years ago when they were cheap and everywhere. I don’t think I’ve seen one in person in 5 years.
Even though you have a car from a dead brand you’re in good shape, that engine was carried forward into the Jeep 4.0 so parts are everywhere. I would keep rocking the engine as is, it probably still has some life left in it.
Unless you have a mechanic that specializes in older cars not too many can rebuild carbs or work on these old vehicles.
You may be able to find a reman carb for what it would cost you to go to a shop, and just spend a bit more time on the ignition, it’s probably something simple wrong with it.
Where are you at? There may even be an oppo nearby who could lend a hand.
Also there are going to be thinga that are hard about a dead brand. Some parts are going to be near unobtanium. You can source most things though. I have 2 automobiles from long dead Marques so I can sympathize (international scout and willys CJ6).
Good luck!
smobgirl
> sn4cktimes
10/13/2016 at 10:04 |
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Wow. You are my hero. I seriously considered an Eagle when I found one here in great condition but instead I got a Tercel wagon that needs work (that I don’t currently have time for). I’ve always thought they were neat cars and I’m excited to see more stories about it!
Construction Kitty looks like my Dummy Cat.
shop-teacher
> sn4cktimes
10/13/2016 at 11:17 |
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Kittay!
Is there a chance some cat hair got in your rebuilt carb? Seriously, that stuff gets everywhere.
For now I’d stick to figuring out how to fix its current problems. There’s learning to be had there.
Sweet wagon BTW!
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sn4cktimes
> jminer
10/13/2016 at 13:51 |
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Whenever I was out and about in the car this summer while it still worked I constantly had people waving, giving thumbs up, screaming E A G L E at me as I drove by (or more specifically as they passed me). So not a lot of them cruising around up here. I haven’t seen an International actually driving in forever. Only see them posted for sale. I’m in Calgary if anybody feels like showing me how to get a distributor going...
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sn4cktimes
> Xyl0c41n3
10/13/2016 at 13:52 |
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Construction Kitty’s actual name is Peet. We picked the name... then picked a female kitten. Thanks for the welcome.
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sn4cktimes
> smobgirl
10/13/2016 at 13:54 |
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I think I’ve possibly commented on your Tercel before. My Uncle used to have a T-Wagon. Thing had around 700,000 km when he eventually sold it off in still perfectly working order. The interior was just trashed after several decades of letting large dogs snoot about inside it.
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sn4cktimes
> OPPOsaurus WRX
10/13/2016 at 14:01 |
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We have a friend who is desperate to go for a ride in my car. She spent most of her childhood being ferried around in an Eagle Wagon. Under the hood is pretty reasonable except for the 5 miles of vacuum lines going everywhere .
I’ve worked on VW products before... repairs are about as sensible. The wife’s old Golf 1.6T used an Audi engine and transmission and I swear that VW made the engineers take turns at laying out each system so that they got more and more ridiculous with each additional component. I replaced a coolant flange once. It required me to remove the ENTIRE air intake SYSTEM. Not the “box”, but all the hoses. And the car battery and unhook a bunch of wiring harnesses. And a bracket. And more hoses... etc. I got there eventually and swapping the part took less than 5 minutes. I don’t miss that car. Timeless styling, nice ride, built like a tank, but the problems. The endless problems...
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sn4cktimes
> RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
10/13/2016 at 14:07 |
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Yeah, I’m kinda leaning towards this option for now at least. I’d love to get rid of the feedback Carter and not have something so “fiddly” controlling my car. Cheap it is not.
The MPFI kit is $2500-ish. It replaces the manifold with a better design, and isn’t a throttle-body style injector setup (you can get kits that basically replace the carb with an injector). It changes the distributor, and the timing somewhat, changes out a whole bunch of electrical, removes, replaces, and adds some sensors, and removes a HEAP of vacuum lines. It is possible to source the parts from a wrecked Jeep and figure it out, but I don’t think that’s a road I want to go down. I’m going to start hunting around for a better price, I’ve heard under $2k can happen through a lazy Chrysler dealership.
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sn4cktimes
> shop-teacher
10/13/2016 at 14:08 |
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Well, unless one single hair got lined up into a tube I kept it pretty clean...
And thanks. The Wife and I are pretty excited about getting a rolling couch back on the roads.
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sn4cktimes
> jimz
10/13/2016 at 14:13 |
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Corrected. I even typed it twice up there which is odd. If you looked at my search history and the amount of times I’ve typed 4.2L it should be muscle-memory by now.
And I’m really considering options that axe the carb. It’s like the centre of misery under the hood of this car. This feedback carb is controlled by so many systems and feedback loops it’s ridiculous. Anything to make emissions at the time I guess. Useless octopus sitting on the manifold.
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smobgirl
> sn4cktimes
10/13/2016 at 14:18 |
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Could be! I have plans but no time or ability so I haven’t had any fun updates like yours yet. My dad is giving me crap but he has untouched project cars from 35 years ago so whatever.
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jimz
> sn4cktimes
10/13/2016 at 14:19 |
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since that’s the same basic engine Jeep used all the way up to 2006, there should be plenty of information on doing an EFI swap.
edit: just saw your mention of the Mopar conversion kit. if the car’s worth it to you, that might be the way to go.
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jminer
> sn4cktimes
10/13/2016 at 14:32 |
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Sorry, I’m in St Louis. Do you have spark? Then is just may need to be timed. Static timing is relatively easy on these old engines.
If you don’t have one, buy a cheap spark tester from your local auto parts store. Check every wire at the plug and the main line from the coil to the distributor.
Also eyeball the clearance between the rotor and cap. There’s a chance they don’t meet up close enough to give a reliable spark. I’ve had that happen on older vehicles before.
My international isn’t on the road yet, but I’m hoping soon...
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sn4cktimes
> jimz
10/13/2016 at 14:34 |
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I think I’ll have this car for a long time so it’s totally worth updating to something reliable.
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sn4cktimes
> jminer
10/13/2016 at 14:44 |
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Well it started JUST before I changed the cap and rotor. So it shouldn’t be lack of spark. But worth confirming I suppose. I’m going to swap the plugs out anyway so I’ll test as I go along.
I’ve tried backing off the rotor but maybe I’ll see just how much I can back it off and still be aligned properly. The cap should push it down if I leave it too high right?
Pretty sure I’m going to have to TDC the engine and make sure everything’s all lined up. It just bothers me because I’ve done this before and NEVER had a problem. Just seems odd. The engine is trying to do something, but just never catches. To my very untrained ear it sounds like the timing is off.
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jminer
> sn4cktimes
10/13/2016 at 14:53 |
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I’m confused by what you say about backing off the rotor. They usually just get pushed down and have not adjustment in the rotor itself. It could be that the main post that pulls the feed from the coil is too short, or that you have a too short rotor. Do you still have the old parts? Compare them to what you have now.
You still want to confirm spark because it’s easy to do something like pull a ground or resistor connection when working in there and that can stop your spark altogether. It is also really easy to check, way easier than timing the engine. Unless you have rotated your distributor body or mixed up the wire order then timing is not likely it, but an electrical issue or an issue with the cap/rotor itself.
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sn4cktimes
> jminer
10/13/2016 at 16:10 |
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I’ve always just pushed rotors on until they stop. It is exactly (without breaking out a set of callipers) the same as the old gear, and reusing the old rotor and cap still didn’t do anything. But I don’t work tomorrow so I’m going to go try and figure out what’s going on out there.
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sn4cktimes
> sn4cktimes
10/15/2016 at 05:28 |
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Followup: Now running.
I yanked all the ignition wires off both the plugs and the distributor cap again and replaced to no effect. I then TDC’d the engine (need a longer ratchet at home), and then confirmed #1 wire is at the proper place and used the new rotor and old cap and tried to start it. We have a CHUG! De-choked the carb and with foot to the floor she fired up!
I fiddled with the carb some more and got most of the stumble out, but it still hesitates / stalls if you step on it too much from a stop. BUT at least it works.
MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
> sn4cktimes
02/01/2017 at 13:45 |
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The carb was being a shit, so I rebuilt it, and it’s actually worse
Sounds about right. Haha. Very cool little truck/wagon